Insubordination?

“Insubordination” has long been an employment term that’s difficult to define.  Ususally, however, it’s definition includes something about not doing what you’re told to do–disobeying an order.  An editorial in the Washington Post tells an employment story that deals squarely with whether a firefighter’s quick decision to disobey an order from his supervisor is grounds for a two-day suspension.

While the editorial encourages the firefighter to challenge the discipline, it’s difficult to form a legal opinion on what the outcome should be based on an editorial that probably tells only part of the story.  The editorial does raise some good questions for human resources and supervisors to consider.

What’s your definition of insubordination? How much latitude do you give an employee who’s in an emergency situation?  Do you give an experienced employee more latitude than a rookie?  When a supervisor imposes discipline for insubordination, should the supervisor’s decision be reviewed to make sure it’s correct?  If it isn’t correct (perhaps too harsh), should the supervisor be disciplined?  And this is certainly not an all-encompassing list of questions.

The fact is that the answers to any questions on insubordination will depend on the nature of the workplace and the job.  The definition of insubordination may be quite different for an firefighter than it is for a store clerk.  You could argue that a firefighter should be given more latitude in an emergency situation, particularly when he’s on the scene of a fire and the supervisor isn’t.  However, in life and death situations, following rules and orders becomes critical.  A strict chain of command is thought to be necessary for the best outcomes in these situations.  Also, the rules around insubordination are different in the public or government sector than in the private sector.

I don’t know how this matter will turn out or should turn out.  I do know that training about how to deal with insubordination is sometimes overlooked.  That’s bad for supervisors and employees.  Training won’t solve all the difficult situations that arise when insubordination comes into play (particularly in emergency situations), but it will help.

1. 

   John Phillips says:

   December 27, 2007 at 3:44 pm

   Thanks for linking to this post. I’ve left a comment on your blog for clarification on exactly why the link was made. I’m happy, of course, to get the word out on my blog. Just curious and still learning about blogging.
2. 

   Neil Shuman says:

   June 1, 2009 at 10:21 am

   I’m a schoolbus driver and I was accused of insubordination for backing into a mailbox during a heavy rain. My visibility was reduced because the windows of the bus were fogged up. I was aware that a mailbox was in my vicinity and was backing cautiously, in fact, braking when I came into contact with the mailbox. I was not aware that I made contact until one of my riders informed me. Could this constitute insubordination? It was a minor accident.
3. 

   John Phillips says:

   June 1, 2009 at 1:07 pm

   Although insubordination is difficult to define, what you’ve described doesn’t sound like insubordination as it’s usually meant in an employment context. Having a wreck, even a mimor one, can be the subject of discipline, however, depending on what an employer’s policy says. I suppose your accident could fall under the insubordination umbrella if you had had a previous accident and had been warned that another accident could result in discipline or termination. In that event, your recent accident could be viewed as a failure to follow your employer’s directive, which is a form of insubordination.
4. 

   Garry Weller says:

   August 23, 2009 at 10:19 am

   A supervisor recently approached a very small group of employees in a cafeteria setting (my wife being one of them) that had been given permission by another lateral supervisor) to sit down and take a short rest break; they had been working outside in the heat for a long period. Unaware of them having permission, the approaching supervisor asked “why are you sitting down? Are you on the clock?” One of the employees responded that they were on the clock but another supervisor had given them permission. After the questioning supervisor walked 20′ away and began a different conversation with another supervisor (believe me there are plenty of lateral supervisors here), my wife was perhaps a little vocal but said to her coworkers “I don’t see why it is so wrong to be able to take a short break after we worked so hard outside”…she used those exact words. Immediately after the encounter, my wife left and went back to work; leaving some of the other employees sitting there. Later, the questioning supervisor came to my wife privately and said “you really embarrassed me out there and you didn’t even apologize – you made me feel like a fool”. Supervisor then called wife to the office and, with company witnesses and one junior union employee, they counseled her and wrote her up for insubordination. Wife had not confronted the supervisor or even spoke about her, or even to directly to her. I would really appreciate your read on this incident.
5. 

   John Phillips says:

   August 23, 2009 at 11:20 am

   On the question of whether your wife’s conduct amounts to insubordination, based strictly on what you’ve said, it’s a somewhat close call. What would be key is what the witnesses who were there (and it sounds like there were quite a few) would say about what your wife said, the way she said it, etc. The fact that she and other employees were taking a break authorized by another supervisor should work in your wife’s favor, but that’s not determinative. Again, what the numerous witnesses say would probably make the difference.

   There may be another legal issue here, and that’s whether your wife and her coworkers were engaged in concerted activity that’s protected by the National Labor Relations Act. They were, at least in part, talking about working conditions.

   Without knowing a lot more about who said what and other circumstances, I can’t give you a definitive answer. As you know, insubordination is nebulous and can often go either way. It’s generally easier to defend a writeup for insubordination than it is to defend a discharge for insubordination.

   Although you didn’t indicate whether your wife has talked to a union rep, she should. Your wife is probably entitled to file a grievance, and if the union would support her, she might consider fiing one. If she’s in a situation where she would be terminated if she got one more writeup, filing a grievance may very well be worthwhile. On the other hand, if that’s not the case, it could be better to let the matter rest.

   That’s my very general read on the situation, but that’s all I can provide. It’s more important to get the union’s read on this and, if possible, the read of the union’s lawyer.
6. 

   John Phillips says:

   March 7, 2010 at 9:28 pm

   m. garbutt
   magarbut@stegh.on.ca | 64.231.167.101

   A coworker of mine and myself agreed to voluntarily sit on a Lean team at our Employers. Meetings were supposed to be 5. After about 8 meetings and some Union conflicts for coworker, being a shop steward. Another team member told employer would like to give then a list of employees that should be fired. Coworker found this to be anti Union and stated at last meeting she would no longer be attending meetings. Manager told her he paid her and she would be there. She clearly told them she would not. Meeting was cancelled and coworker wrote up for insubordination. Was she justified in quitting a voluntary team. Is her reason as a Union Steward valid. Thanks

   From Insubordination?, 2010/02/24 at 5:08 PM
7. 

   John Phillips says:

   March 7, 2010 at 9:29 pm

   John Phillips
   JPhillips@millermartin.com | 71.226.180.212

   I’m sorry, but I don’t have enough overall facts to answer your questions.

   From Insubordination?, 2010/02/24 at 8:15 PM